Titletown Brewing Co. in the former Chicago & Northwestern Depot

I don't know about you, but I continue to enjoy the Green Bay Press-Gazette's series "A is for Architecture".  One of my favorite episodes so far was done last year on the former Chicago & Northwestern building which today houses Titletown Brewing Co. and restaurant.  The newspaper's writer, Warren Gerds, interviewed Titletown Brewery president Brent Wycker in this piece.  Brent's appreciation of the building and it's history is clearly evident.

One of my favorite quotes from Brent Weycker, the president of Titletown Brewing, was this, "This is one of those buildings that you can't re-create, if you wanted to rebuild something like this.  It would be cost-prohibitive".


One downside of the slideshow is that they aren't always easy to view and archive.   Below is the transcript from this excellent slideshow as well as some choice photos, all courtesy of the Press-Gazette and Titletown Brewing:

"Titletown Brewery started life as the Chicago & Northwestern Railway depot in 1898.  Thousands of passengers.  Thousands of passengers arrived and departed from the depot at 200 Dousman Street just west of the Fox River in Downtown Green Bay."

"Some of those passengers were Green Bay Packers.  At times the crowds swelled to 20,000 people to greet the team after another victory.  I'm Brent Wycker, President of Titletown Brewing Company."

"Today the exterior of the building retains much of it's exterior look in keeping with the status on the National Register of Historic Places.  The architecture is Romanesque Revival, that means some of its features carry on from Roman times from about 2000 years ago."

"Some signs on the building are the rounded, load-bearing arches over some doors, windows, entryways, and the clock tower."

"The front entry has telltale signs of Romanesque architecture:  Columns.  Above the columns in the photograph are classical elements in the cornice, modillian or the fringe and other portions of what's called the entablature"

"The primary materials are brick and stone.  History continues in the structure, on metal posts on the covered walkway west of the railroad tracks, visitors can see DUNCAN,S IRON WK,S 1898, GREEN BAY WIS the company that once operated nearby in the Broadway District.  Many of the bricks in the walkway are original. 

"Inside are the old waiting rooms.  Back in 1898 when it ws originally built, there was a women's waiting room and a general waiting room.  Both of them now are dining areas. The fireplaces still exist"

 "What I like best about the building is that trains still go by, reminding everybody that this is still a functioning depot. and that, that's how it very much was, many years ago."

"This is one of those buildings that you can't re-create, if you wanted to rebuild something like this.  It would be cost-prohibitive". 

Besides being a beautiful building and an important spot, it was also a spot that you got your packages.  Everything came through here, it was really a center of excitement. 

"The architect is Charles Frost.  In the late 1800s and early 1900s railroads were basically redoing their depots because they were the king, they were in the freight business and now they wanted to get into the passenger business. In order to do that they needed to build structures that looked pleasing to the eye and they hired architects and they hired Charles Frost who's wife was the daughter of the president of Chicago Northwestern so I'm sure he had a little "in" there to design it,"

He designed most of the C&N depots that are still standing.  Green Bay was an up-and-coming city.  Green Bay was very unique in that it had a 5-story clock tower that was one of the main defining buildings on the west side.  

"The railroad stood for progress.  We didn't have a little bitty depot, we didn't have a giant depot, we had a middle-sized depot, so it was larger than normal of the depots in the near area.  And it said that Green Bay was a great city to come to."

This concludes the transcript from the Press-Gazette slideshow.  Historic Photos courtesy of TItletown Brewing Company and the Green Bay Press-Gazette.

My notes/commentary:

• 
  
   It's interesting to note that architect Charles Frost also designed many of the well-known and celebrated architecture in Chicago, including the auditorium and headhouse on Navy Pier.
  
  
  

• To see the entire Green Bay Press-Gazette "A is for Architecture" series click here.  Note that I did not show all of the photos from the slideshow above.
  

There has been much discussion over on the Green Bay thread on the SSC forum on whether Titletown could be used as a passenger rail depot again someday if the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative does indeed come to fruition.  Count me in as one who hopes that passenger rail service comes to Green Bay and that Titletown Brewing building can be expanded as needed to house the depot.  I've compiled some of my recent posts on this matter below, with some additional links and pictures:

For me, I am interested in restoring Titletown as the passenger rail station. I love Titletown the restaurant and I think they can and should stay (they could be the 'defacto' place to eat, have coffee, for travellers).

Here's what I understand about Titletown based on conversations with several people:   Back in 1995-96 when they renovated the old train station to become a restaurant, at that time I think they leveraged some money that was designated as "transportation funding" through the state or feds. I think some strings were attached to that. I think the idea was to preserve the station in case it would ever be used again for trains.
At the NEWrails meeting I was told that the north end of Titletown has enough space to be used as a passenger station. That space is currently not used (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this).

Although I often rail on parking I do understand its necessity. And I think Titletown's situation offers a better arrangement for the medium-long term parking needs. I'm not saying "Build huge surface parking lots!" but I'm thinking that part of the adjacent property has opportunity to tuck in some parking in a non obtrusive way.

Titletown was built in a way befitting a train station. It's got some cool detail and grand features (as seen above).   A new modern stations simply won't be built that way. Not enough money, desire, or support generally to build things this way anymore especially on public buildings. So, any new station will be constructed as cheaply as possible, most likely, and modern prefab materials and building techniques rarely pull off anything architecturally special. For these reasons I worry about what a brand-new station might end up like and so I go back to Titletown as the best choice.

And not to be underestimated:  the station will bring with it activity and life. I tend to think that Titletown offers more of a focal point to that, with the views offered from the Main St bridge. This may be a minor point but we do want more people to start to see that the downtown is coming back to life, and this would help.

One question is whether the north part of the building isn't big enough for a station, I would think an addition would be relatively inexpensive (at least compared to building a whole new station)...Plus, the Titletown building already has the track siding and the huge platform which should help save some money on the station. I would think that the restaurant/brewery would welcome a train station, and all of the activity & people it would bring. But rather than assume, I'd like to hear from someone who might know the owner of this place or better yet the owner him/herself.  Feel free to post a comment on this blog if you have any further information on this.

A recent picture:  the old passenger car is kept on the siding track near the old platform for show, I guess.

Arthur Anderson

CityDeck construction photo taken this morning

A new building at the intersection of Walnut & Washington St?

A couple years ago, a new building proposal called the Grand Union was marketed at the southeast corner of Walnut & Washington Street.   At that time, I had provided you the render of the proposed Grand Union here on this blog.

That plan is now dead;  However, a new and better plan may be going public soon.

Here is a render of the new plan:

Note on the Oct 22 meeting

Click here for details.

State your case on which downtown Green Bay building is the ugliest

Although "ugly" is a matter of taste, perhaps you'd like to let loose on which building or part of downtown Green Bay you think is the ugliest.   If you don't want to leave a comment on this post, you can choose from the 'ugly poll' instead if you'd like.

Some relevant ugly quotes:

"Art produces ugly things which frequently become more beautiful with time. Fashion, on the other hand, produces beautiful things which always become ugly with time." ~Jean Cocteau

A woman tells her doctor, 'I've got a bad back.' The doctor says, 'It's old age.' The woman says, 'I want a second opinion.' The doctor says: 'Okay - you're ugly as well.' ~Tommy Cooper
(OK, I don't know how this is relevant but it's just funny)

Green Bay Bullfrogs stadium plans made 'official'

In case you haven't heard, the Green Bay Bullfrogs have gone public with plans to build a new stadium on the Fox River "Brownfield of Dreams" site.  This unofficial concept was discussed  here on Packerland Annals some time ago.

One of the professional renders that was published in the Green Bay Press-Gazette is shown below:

I like the above render.  The brick and other design features fit Green Bay and this site well.  My earlier renders, as well as more recent professional ones, are available here on this web album.

I've posted my thoughts on this:  I think this site is nearly perfect for this use.   Now that the concept is out there, the big hurdle is of course the financing.   But as someone once said, “Money never starts an idea. It is always the idea that starts the money.”


Your thoughts?

Mark Oct 22 on your calendars for the next Get-Together

After the great success of our last "downtown Green Bay" Get-Together in August, I'm holding to my word and starting to organize our next bi-monthly meeting.   Mark Oct 22 on your calendars for our next meeting.  The time will be about 7:00 PM.  I am still deciding on a place; watch this blog for an update.  Hope to see you there!

P.S. I'm still very encouraged by the positive reactions to this blog, and I am looking for ways to find the time to continue to post here.   Since I often come up with ideas while "on the go", I have recently joined the club of being someone with a smartphone (an iPhone in particular).  This should help me record thoughts, brainstorms, etc while on the run, and I'm hoping to use it to post pictures and articles more often.

Thanks for reading, I'm thrilled that you are a reader and a fellow Green Bay critic/enthusiast.

One of the first lighthouses in the Bay of Green Bay

Some old images of the range lighthouses that used to be in the Bay of Green Bay:

and the closeup:

These were  range lights, a pair of two lighthouses that ships used to line up to determine the angles used to navigate safely into the Port of Green Bay.  They used to be located here, but were moved from the Bay a couple miles in to near the mouth of the Fox River (where they were recently restored).

Green Bay Aerial from an R/C airplane

Someone strapped a video camera onto a remote control airplane and flew it around the downtown.

This was mentioned at the dowontown meeting the other night, here it is  Check it out on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHJEvhUgc8

Kennedys in Green Bay

With the passing of Ted Kennedy I thought I'd rehash an article I wrote some time ago about Kennedys who had visited Green Bay in case you missed it back in 2007.

Ted Kennedy was almost a Packer!

Here's the article with pictures of several Kennedy brothers during their visits to Titletown.

Great meeting last night

Excellent turnout at last night's downtown Green Bay meeting.  Check out some comments on the SSC forum.

I got some good feedback & fodder for this blog last night.  I feel encouraged to continue this thing.  Those of you who have met me now know that I am truly a cave man.

August 27th Get-Together at Titletown Brewing

Join us on August 27th at  for an informal "Downtown Green Bay enthusiast" meeting.  Meet at about 8:00 PM on the 2nd level of Titletown Brewing Co. at 200 Dousman St.  Jeff Mirkes of Downtown Green Bay, Inc. will be there to give us a slideshow and talk of what's been happening in DTGB.   We will also discuss future meeting places and ideas for things to do, such as perhaps touring some of the other interesting buildings (pending cooperation of the owners of course).  See you on Thursday evening!

Favre a Viking

the new aloft hotel

The new aloft hotel on the Fox River opened for business earlier in the year.  I think it is one of the more interesting hotels to have opened in the area recently and it's in a great location along the Fox River.

I know someone who attended the "Grand Opening" earlier this year.  From what I heard, it was not the typical hotel grand opening....instead of your typical boring speeches by politicians, this grand opening was a wild party with  all sorts of tomfoolery and shenanigans (including women dressed in nothing but paint).

Anyway, here is a video on YouTube showing off some of the views and amenities of this new hotel.

A Downtown Walk with the Packers

The Official 2009 Packers Yearbook includes a good article by Cliff Cristl on Downtown Green Bay's "close association" with the Green Bay Packers.  Cliff takes the reader on a 4.5 mile walk through historic downtown, describing many of the sites that are significant in Packer history.

The sites  include:

• Where it all began:  The old Green Bay Press-Gazette building, on the 300 block of Cherry Street near the southeast corner of the Associated Bank building.  This site is where Curly Lambeau and George Calhoun met in August 1919 to organize the football team.  The building was torn down in 1948 and the site is currently used as a parking lot.
• The Northern Building, Curly Lambeau's off-season office.  I wrote about this in a 2007 blog article.  The Packer Yearbook includes a cool picture of this building. 
• The old Milwaukee Road Depot, the site of victory celebrations when the Packers brought home NFL Titles via passenger rail.  Kitty corner from this site was the Packer offices between 1943-1963. (here's an aerial photo of the site as it exists today)   Cristl's article recalls some details from David Maraniss's book, When Pride Still Mattered.  I read this book also, and it provided some incredible details of  the events that transpired here.  Cristl's article recalls a bit of that.  One of the Packer's low moments was after the 1958 season, when the team under coach Scooter McClean "overwhelmed one opponent, underwhelmed ten opponents, and whelmed one".  The book vividly portrays the staff meeting at this site for McClean's going away party just before Lombardi came to town. 
• St. Willebrord Catholic Church, where Vince Lombardi regularly attended morning mass.   According to Cristl's article, the priest there would include things like this in his sermon:  "We must love our neighbors, except those dirty Bears.  We've got to beat them today".
• The Brown County Courthouse, where the Packer Board and Stockholders used to meet.  I did not know that they met here.
• The Columbus Club building, which served as a gathering place for road games and "Play-by-Play" updates (before the advent of radio or TV broadcasts).  Sort of the first Packer Sports Bar.  It was also the Packer's clubhouse and dressing room.  The team had private space in the top-floor clubhouse, which was once describes as "the finest team headquarters in the entire league".   The article also describes the jam-packed rally held here in 1956 to support the referendum to authorize the construction of Lambeau Field.  This building became the home of WBAY-TV in the 1960's (the TV station still broadcasts from this location today).
• City Stadium, where games were played between the 1920's and 1950's.   According to the yearbook article, the entier tract of land from Walnut Street north to the East River was called Hagemeister Park and was used for a variety of uses including Packer games.  
• The Hotel Northland building, where "members of visiting teams used to complain that small bands of inebriated fans...would march the halls all night long and keep them awake".  Almost all players and coaches who visited Green Bay before 1970 used to stay here at this hotel, according to Cristl's article. 
• Curly Lambeau's Birthplace on Irwin Ave.  I bike past this house on my commute.  It's a cool old house.

I've been collecting these Packer Yearbooks since I was a kid in the 1980's. I was happy to see this year's combine my team, the Packers with one of my other passions.  It's a good one.

Monthly Downtown Get-Together?

Please vote on the poll above on whether you might be interested in a monthly get-together with other Downtown Green Bay enthusiasts.  I'm thinking we meet on a specified date, say, the 3rd  4th Thursday of each month at around 7 PM.  The meetings could be very informal; perhaps at most, we'd get a guest to speak on some sort of topic, but otherwise, it would just be a casual gathering.  What do you think?  Be sure to vote and/or leave a comment on this post.

P.S. if we do this, we should come up with a good name for our group.  Any suggestions?

Packerland Annals future

Hi.
How you doin'?  Packerland Annals is not dead; it will continue.
Stay tuned, subscribe as a "follower" if you'd like to receive updates on when I start posting again.

Why do we even care about downtown Green Bay?

Throughout the years, I've thought about why so many people really do give a rat's a$$ about Downtown Green Bay.  Clearly there is a large group of you who really care about DTGB.  This is evident if you follow forums like SSC , this blog, or if you've been to any of the popular Good Morning, Downtown meetings.

As for me, this article  sums it up pretty well.

Why do you care?


Leave a comment, it's interesting what your perspective is, especially considering the lowly state that DTGB has slipped into in recent years.  Why not just give up hope?

P.S.
Due to spam, I've had to turn on verification.  That means I get your comment and I have to verify it before posting it public.  No worries, though, your comment will get posted ASAP.

Excellent turnout in support of the restoration of passenger rail service to Green Bay

I just got back from the meeting organized by Frank Ingram to support passenger rail service  to Green Bay.   This meeting was held at at Titletown Brewery (one of the former Green Bay train depots).  The turnout was unprecedented.  As Frank said, he expected "4 people and a dog" but actually the meeting had to be split into 2 sessions, with a packed room at each.  I'd estimate that 100 people showed up to support this, although I'm sure Frank will update with a more solid number.

If you're interested in staying in touch with this group and getting a summary of this meeting, send an email to Frank at:   gbpassrail@new.rr.com

If you also attended this meeting, please comment with your observations and reactions.  I plan to blog more about these developments in the future.  

Open Thread

Life's been keeping me busy, not much time for blogging lately, so I think it's time to invite some comments.   If you have anything you want to say about this blog or the topics within, let's hear it! 

The Resurgence of the Trolley

Trolleys were beneficial both economically and socially during the 20th century.  It appears they may be making a comeback.   I hope Green Bay gets back into the program.

The street railway was a major catalyst of urban development in the last half of the 19th century and the first decades of the 20th. Streetcars provided mobility that enabled workers to reach their factory jobs while living further than walking distance from their places of employment. They enabled growth of suburbs and then brought people to city centers in sufficient density to support the development of department stores, major league sports, large theaters, and even created America's classic amusement parks, where streetcars could take workers on weekends.



The decline of American cities in the 20 years after World War II was paralleled by the decline of electric streetcars. Paved roads and affordable autos sent workers and often jobs further from downtown, and buses were developed that could transport the few who couldn't afford cars, but consequently helped give public transit a down-market image.


But a renewed interest in America's downtowns, spurred in part by ever-longer commutes on traffic choked arteries, and by the soullessness some found in suburban life, served to reverse that trend.


Remarkably, the electric streetcar has again emerged as a catalyst that helps encourage redevelopment of often-derelict downtown neighborhoods, but more importantly encourages a density of development that makes the neighborhoods they serve efficient in land use and highly desirable places to live.


Since the pioneering second generation downtown streetcar lines began to appear in the mid-1980s, there has been an ever growing appreciation of the roles they can play in helping focus redevelopment.


Streetcars are energy efficient and the electricity that powers them can be generated from domestic, renewable sources. The permanence denoted by the track installed in street pavement and the power wire erected above encourages developers to concentrate their investments near streetcar lines. The close spacing of streetcar stops means that development can be spread along a corridor....

Click here to read the rest of this article--especially be sure to scroll down to some tables that help to quantify the impressive record in four cities with new streetcar systems, including Kenosha.
Also, check out this mission statement from the American Public Transportation Association:

Mission: Urban life in America is making a strong resurgence. This has led to a revival of interest not only in the preservation of historic districts and urban neighborhoods, but also in a classic technology—the urban streetcar—that can serve as a major catalyst for urban revival. As traditional neighborhoods in older cities become the location of choice for more American—singles, young couples, families, and empty-nesters alike—there is an emerging a need to provide good and attractive transit service to these areas. The APTA Streetcar and Heritage Trolley Subcommittee (of the APTA Rail Committee) was formed to promote the development of vintage/heritage trolley lines and modern streetcar lines in urban centers, to foster information exchange among those planning or operating such lines, and to encourage reasonable technical and safety standards.

Here is the APTA web site.  I'm interested in this stuff because I think this kind of thing just might work to help revitalize Green Bay's downtown.  Yeah, I'm harping on that streetcar loop idea again. 

I'm stuck on the idea for a whole bunch of reasons, some of which somewhat repeats the article above but mine (below) are a bit more Green Bay-specific:

• we need some sort of quiet, clean, attractive, efficient downtown circulator transit system that could reduce the need for large ugly parking lots & ramps that destroy the urban character of the downtown;
• It could allow people to park just once, either on the downtown's periphery or in one of the ramps, and then easily move about the downtown
• A loop means no going out-of-the-way to the transit center and to potentially transfer, as the current bus system does
• Many people generally dislike busses (even those that are dressed up as trollies).
• streetcar tracks are relatively inexpensive to put in place,
• streetcar tracks may be seen as being more 'permanent' infrastructure. This could make business more prone to locate along the route in existing buildings and hopefully even infill some of the parking lots.
• people would dig how these things hearken back to the "glory years" of downtown Green Bay. The state & national media would undoubtedly showcase the trolleys, and downtown would once again be in the limelight instead of just Lambeau (a spur line could, by the way, be run off of the circulator loop to the stadium/Oneida Street area. This would bring people into downtown without the need for parking)
• the trolley loop would tie into the eventual regional passenger rail depot, likely to be built on the west side of the Fox River (perhaps near Titletown Brewing)

The trolley industry is apparently coming alove. Here is a modern company in Iowa that builds old-style electric trolleys.

Good morning America, how are you? Said don't you know me, I'm your native son

If the below embedded YouTube video & song doesn't work, click Magic carpets made of steel:

Riding on the City of New Orleans,
Illinois Central Monday morning rail
Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders,
Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail.
All along the southbound odyssey
The train pulls out at Kankakee
Rolls along past houses, farms and fields.
Passin' trains that have no names,
Freight yards full of old black men
And the graveyards of the rusted automobiles.


CHORUS:
Good morning America how are you?
Don't you know me I'm your native son,
I'm the train they call The City of New Orleans,
I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done.


Dealin' card games with the old men in the club car.
Penny a point ain't no one keepin' score.
Pass the paper bag that holds the bottle
Feel the wheels rumblin' 'neath the floor.
And the sons of pullman porters
And the sons of engineers
Ride their father's magic carpets made of steel.
Mothers with their babes asleep,
Are rockin' to the gentle beat
And the rhythm of the rails is all they feel.


CHORUS


Nighttime on The City of New Orleans,
Changing cars in Memphis, Tennessee.
Half way home, we'll be there by morning
Through the Mississippi darkness
Rolling down to the sea.
And all the towns and people seem
To fade into a bad dream
And the steel rails still ain't heard the news.
The conductor sings his song again,
The passengers will please refrain
This train's got the disappearing railroad blues.


Good night, America, how are you?
Don't you know me I'm your native son,
I'm the train they call The City of New Orleans,
I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done.

I've always loved this song! Though I've never been that much of a train geek, this passenger rail theme has got me going.

From SongFacts.com:

Steve Goodman wrote this in 1970. He wrote the lyrics on a sketch pad after his wife fell asleep on the Illinois Central train, where they were going to visit his wife's grandmother. Goodman wrote about what he saw looking out the windows of the train and playing cards in the club car. Everything in the song actually happened on the ride. After he returned home he heard the train was scheduled to be decommissioned do to lack of passengers. He was encouraged to use this song to save the train. He retouched the lyrics and released it on his first album in 1971.


(Arlo) Guthrie's cover in 1972 popularized the song and brought attention to rail lines that were vanishing across middle America. Many people ... relied on them to travel.

I think this song means more than ever today.  How is America?  Not particularly well, partly because we abandoned our 'native son'.

News might break on this soon

News might break soon on the Bullfrogs building a new stadium on the 'brownfield site', if it's going to happen. I wonder about the financing of it--that's got to be extremely difficult right now.  Anyone heard anything new on this lately?

I still think it's a damn good idea!! (it's not my idea, I just took the idea from some other smart guy and rendered it up...)

Some Thoreau quotes

OK, I will get to finishing the plan review.  Instead of blogging, I've been spending my limited spare time doing some other stuff like reading.  Here's something for you: 

Here are a few Henry David Thoreau quotes that may relate to the themes of this blog:

"What's the use of a fine house if you haven't got a tolerable planet to put it on?"

"Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each."

"If one advances confidently in the direction of one's dreams, and endeavors to live the life which one has imagined, one will meet with a success unexpected in uncommon hours."

Thoreau touted things like simple living in natural surroundings.  I totally agree that we all could benefit by spending more time surrounded by nature.   While I respect many of his philosophies, I have to say he may have unwittingly helped to start the ideal of suburbanism when he built the house on Walden Pond, which was not really wilderness (it was on the outskirts of town).